Dear faros3000,
Thank you for your point of view, this is a forum, it's Free Discussion everyone is more than welcome, and I believe each can learn from the other. I tried to make this post short but like I said the world is twisted, I don't think there are enough words. Please don't take a thing personal or insulting it is my pleasure to write these words. And obviously completely disagree and still be my friends.
Those of you working it the "industry" using licensed software are just forgetting something very simple. You don't buy the license it's your clients that buy the license. No clients, no software, no business. Your place is just to transfer the license money from one to the other.
Very greedy not because they are making money. But because of the way they do it. Let me explain a little.
When I evaluate a product I'm thinking of it's true value. Take a pair of shoes.
Those can be expensive or cheap doesn't matter. But it matters what they are, what they are made of, how were those made and so, the quality and many more.
On the market you'll find shoes which should be never bought or shoes that are not being bought.
Mainly when someone makes a product if it's for his/her passion and not for money, the product will most likely become a good one. Simply because that guy got involved and tried to do as much as he could. I mean by that to look nice, to be comfortable, to keep you warm and so.
Some even think on how to reduce the cost, not to make money but to make them cheap to as many as possible.
Now the price of the product could be high or low depending on technology or time spent or materials or....
For (many in the past, few in the present) products you can understand the price, or at least "know what you pay for".
The bad thing is that some, in fact many, sellers on the market, by many means, take advantage of the clients, and instead of focusing their efforts on the product they try to fool the client or kill the competition. Or simply take advantage of their product uniqueness by setting a high unjustified price. They even get organized in groups of so called business man (thief's), sit at a round table and set a price for a specific market. The so called cartels.
Going back to Tekla and Autocad.
Maybe one can explain to me why:
- Tekla hasn't changed it's engine since version 13. The same issues are there related to weight estimation, solid cuts especially pipes?
- Tekla has realeased a lot of versions but each new one had a new button most of them usefulness but at the same time they still don't have a button for saving in a previous version?
- Each new version of tekla has new bugs some are pretty obvious that I can't imagine how they missed them during bug testing?
- Tekla hasn't implemented Tabbed Document View it's still with that awful hard to use MDI.
- Each new version of Autocad requires a new computer each year for the same task. Why I'm getting new buttons like that 3d useless cube and the poorly bad implemented office ribbon menu.
- For it's price why I'm getting errors and so I loose work although I use licensed updated version. I'm talking about many computers simple drawings. Not one computer and complicated drawing.
- Both products share complicated license schemes. I don't get it how that happened. Take autocad for example, you can use it in another country under certain conditions, or else the license is not valid.
- Where's the "you get what you paid for"?
- To keep up with new version each year you'll have to buy subscription, to get a decent upgrade price. But this translates into become our client and never escape.
- Tekla has a price of 19000$.
- Where's the middle application for drawing like 4 lines on an old computer.
- Few days ago I installed trueview just to convert some new version files. The setup takes like 2GB hard disk space to install. The software takes in the end 580MB. Sorry but this is crapp, for 30 buttons or so. There were days when a pc game including voice, sounds, music, textures, intro movie, ending movie, 3d models, menus, application logic and many more simply fit into this amount of space quite well.
- And sorry if I open in autocad a dxf generated by myself which has like 4320 3dfaces and 4320 lines switch to realistic it ends up with an error, on fast computer, on which my simple 4 pages application can render that without problem.
- There's so much to say on what to expect and what you actually get. Where is the innovation from the old beginning days?
Why greedy, because they control patents for just anything. And by doing so you simply can't invent anything, you'll end up with a process, and business will be lost. Have a better look at Autodesk it owns now so many companies, it's getting bigger and bigger.
Read here more:
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Here are some funny/sad patents
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If still not convinced, it's because they target a market, make a business plan, and incomes are higher that expenses.
This really is the truth or else they would have perished from the first days, weeks, year after publishing their products.
Now if you accept the idea that they have a market and make profit. You can accept the idea that they don't need to sell on other markets.
So why all the noise BSA and all that? Sincerely I don't like them and I don't want them on my market, but still I'm forced to play the game with them.
Let me explain a little bit more if they extend the market obviously the price could be lower, but it's quite the opposite many have higher prices on developing (poor) countries markets. Moreover if they extend the market they can in fact improve the product and I'm not seeing it just fancy buttons here and there and a new Please buy our product review.
Let's talk a little about Sap or Etabs.
I can't say much it's on the border, not very expensive, not really cheap, they had a lot of improvements. The solvers Advanced and Multi threading are really fast, it explains a new version. The OpenGL and DirectX graphics are total failures. I guess they should focus on what they know best the solver and leave the interface for others to develop.
I wish they had the option to transfer model from one to the other it's quite hilarious that after so many years this option isn't there. I want to see in sap piers and spandrels or sap's solver in etabs. This is the same hilarious etabs is so great for wall structures but analyzing shell structure is so damn slow in etabs. The graphics is quite the same in both software small improvements here and there. I wish sap had multiple mass source option, and I'm waiting for a true automesh since long ago.
Going back to the subject.
I dislike the words developed and developing countries. Mainly because there is no such thing.
These word should be replaced by financial poor or rich at this moment. When talking about development there are so many sides like money, influence, culture, history, quality of people, way of life, happiness, illusion, army, technology, pollution, IQ, targets...
And who has the right to judge which is which? What good is there if people have money but live in illusion? Or if those money are stained with others blood or sweat. Let's not get into details.
In other words BSA says there are rich markets where it's products are bought and poor markets where those are cracked and used for free. OK so?
In my opinion this is a problem with many shapes, keep in mind there's a local and a global market too.
First let's say I want to do/sell engineering, I have great ideas but I need software to bring them to life.
Why I need software? Simply because rivals use software, I could draw them on a piece of paper by the way, if needed. And I'm not selling BSA products, I'm selling my ideas. And let's say I have access on the local market of a poor country only.
So I decide to buy software, like everyone does in the rich country, but wait I can't add it's price to my design price. Why?
Because:
- rivals use cracked software and I end up with a high design price (which by the way could be possibly cheaper than the rich country design price)
- clients don't afford a design done with an expensive software.
Don't forget as complicated software gets the more money are spent learning it. The so called learning, student, versions available in some schools are just selling solutions. And not always available global. This leads to increasing the price a little bit more for training.
And so I end up with two options forget about engineering and play fare, moral, legal whatever or use the cracked version.
Obviously I have to use the latest cracked version or else I loose because the rivals use it, funny you know, the each year new version.
To keep the story going let's say I use cracked. So what?
I simply spoil the market. If a design company from a rich country wishes to sell on the local (cracked) market it has no chance. OK then no software on this market no outside competition what can be wrong in that?
There will be another greedy company from the rich country that will hire me to design using cracked software for the rich country, because I'm cheap, cheaper than it's employees, cheaper because I use cracked software. And so the global market gets spoiled too. Remember the Tekla copyright story link I provided few posts above? BSA will eventually stop selling licenses in the rich countries too. And so everyone looses.
Now if BSA has success and nobody can use cracked software on this local poor market. I a beginner low on funds have very little chance to do some design. Because of patents, because I can't get enough projects to buy software as fast as they change versions, and many more...
But mainly because the global huge outside design company will eat all the projects.
Is this OK? I don't think so, I believe the more have access to information and a way to express themselves the more everyone will get.
I trust the feeling that true innovation is not driven by money but it's driven by chance, opportunity, and passion.
There's nothing wrong in making money but business that started well has become enemy of innovation because of one man's greed.
Piracy, and using of stolen, cracked software is not the way. It leads to further loose of resources, an infinite circle. Cracker vs. developer. Stimulating free and open source exchange of ideas, software, work of art is the way. Donating money for it is the way.
Choosing open source or free software or even alternative software instead of highly marketed software seems the way. Contributing without expectations to the world should be the way, ideas and emotions too.
But open source it's not really open and some of it has a large company behind.
The business card:
Let's say you invent a new steel splice one that is safer, not cheaper or whatever just safer. One employ or colleague will decide to copy it and improve it without your approval. What will it be, will you allow that? What can you do hire a lawyer how much money can you invest in a lawsuit that has small chances of win because of a small change in design? Have you payed the steel inventor or the bolts inventor, the basic elements that were the base of your design?
No going back to your example did you invented logos or business cards? Was your idea to place on a business card a logo, or phone number or email address? I know it's sounds strange but this is it you heard that some use business cards and even saw one so you decided to copy the idea and maybe have more clients, because others do the same. Do you think you were the first with that idea no check first all the patents related to business cards, you might have even copied without knowing:
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Stealing is an old human habit and not even human it's part of nature, it can be found in animal life too.
Some build doors to keep the house warm, they add locks to keep the thief out. But the thief breaks the lock so a new lock is designed, and a new breaking technique is discovered and so one. You may call it innovation in both cases.
The cracker vs protection or thief, vs lock designer is called arms race it's in nature too, makes part of evolution
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Copying is the same an old human habit and like stealing it simply can't be stopped. Not by contracts and not by secrecy. Trust me you can do whatever you want but once an idea comes out of your mouth be sure someone will use, adapt, change, improve it for his or other interest. Until the day we can control other people thoughts the only ideas that stay yours are those that never leave your head or useless to everyone else.
I don't know about you but I can say that my work is like 1% mine while 99% is some other people and those 99% split into another other 99%. Take Sap2000 for instance how much of it is actually the work of it's authors? If sap uses a modified Jordan equation system solver, and Jordan modified Gauss method and Gauss modified an old Chinese guy method from sometime BC. Than is sap genuine? While reviewing 3-4 years ago Midas Civil or Gen can't remember which one but it looked way much alike Sap2000.
If I look at software Lusas, AxisVM, Sap2000, Midas, Advace Design, Robot more or less they all share the same design options. Like the Microsoft - Apple, all copy one from the other.
Here some engineering funny article about copy and invention:
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Here some info on how to copy natures copying technique
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Copying is part of evolution like humans do animals do and more important the whole nature does it with each individual, a copy of it's parents. A better or worse each individual decides although he/she shouldn't.
I guess it's called incremental innovation.
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If you'll go deep in history of Microsoft or any other successful company many in fact have stolen others ideas. They took advantage of laws or opportunity or...
I don't care if someone makes a copy of my work. Or if he/she makes more money than I do with it.
In fact I'm happy because my idea was better than some guy could come with.
And there's more the idea never came in order to make more money.
The goal was to solve a problem if money comes it's OK if not the same.
So I have no issues to share my own work with others because I know that I made it and I can improve it if needed.
Sometime I deal with students I share them my latest thoughts about anything although they will work for a rival. Why that because I hope the overall quality of design will improve and because nobody can take away from me my own proven to myself abilities.
Regarding business
I had to design a structural system. While doing so I copied from others, changed, improved... The company I work for decided to make a patent out of it. They used it with a client. The client went to others to copy my design. And so after a while I received from another new possible client my design copied by those others, with the request to improve it. And so I did, I actually improved my first patented design and so my company gained a new client. Those who copied it are out of business now, they spent time to copy while I spent it to innovate, improve it.
I call it my design because a company can't own one invention truly just legally although not even legally, even if some wished they did.
If still in doubt please read this text, and more important look at his face, there's a smile there do you think because of money or his contribution to world engineering?
Ashraf Habibullah
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Imagine how many resources are spent for the arms-race between cracker and protection, thief and lock builder, lawyers, marketing strategy, business strategy, commercials...
All making a step away from the perfect shoe heading to nothing that has patent and it's called shoe and you can't afford it.
In a world driven only by money there's no free smile, no teachers, no books, no friends, no compassion, no love, no free will, just money. The question is would you like to live in that world?
If not keep the open source and free exchange of your work and your ideas, there will be thief's but a smile too. Some have the courage you know.
And there are clients, real ones, that will come back because they truly appreciate your work.
My best regards, and my 5 cents.
