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+---- Thread: Orion r15 (/thread-13420.html)
Orion r15 - techno - 06-26-2010
Hello to all civilea members,
I'm looking for some orion expert to guide me.
After i run the analysis and then beam design (batch mode) to design all beams and some of the beams failed (with a red cross). So, once i double the failed beam, i have got 2 types of message.
a) RHS Analysis Moment and momenit calculated using the diagrams not matching.
b) "Axial Tension force exceed", "Beam Minor Bending exceeded", beam Minor Shear Exceeded".
Any suggestion regarding these 2 problems?
I really need some opinions about it.
RE: Orion r15 - chigozie - 06-26-2010
techno wrote:-
....a) RHS Analysis Moment and momenit calculated using the diagrams not matching.
b) "Axial Tension force exceed", "Beam Minor Bending exceeded", beam Minor Shear Exceeded".
Any suggestion regarding these 2 problems?
....
Comment:-
Those messages are the reasons given as to why your design failed. So you have to redesign the failed members
Regards
Teddy
RE: Orion r15 - techno - 06-26-2010
Dear chigozie,
have u ever use orion?
the beam isn't fail in term of major bending. In additional, there is no such thing to design beam minor bending or axial force in orion.
Assume what u said is correct, when i inspect the steel bar WITHOUT changing it then click OK to exit to beam design menu. Surprisingly, the beam passed with a green tick.
Since u said the beam is failed, but how come it shown me pass while i am not changing the steel bar at all?
RE: Orion r15 - gboyega - 06-28-2010
Dear Techno,
hope you find the following information useful.
a) RHS Analysis Moment and momenit calculated using the diagrams not matching.
Orion validates the beam moments before performing the design.
Analysis Moments:
Building Analysis calculates the design forces for each beam.
Design Moments:
Rather than simply taking the moments from Building Analysis, the design moment diagram is then generated by starting with the LHS moment and then generating the moment profile based on the applied loading.
Once the Design Moment Diagram is complete Orion compares the generated RHS Diagram Moment with the original Building Analysis RHS moment, if they differ by more than a small tolerance the warning will be displayed. You should not ignore this warning if the difference is significant. Beams would be designed using the Design Moment not the Analysis Moment.
FURTHER INFO
============
There are multiple methods of loading a beam as described below.
- Each beam has two types of loading stored in the model
FE - Determined from the FE Beam Load Decomposition.
Yield Line - used using the traditional method of load distribution.
- When Building Analysis is performed the software loads each beam with whichever decomposition from above you have chosen as the Slab Loads Calculation Method in the Edit Member Loads dialog.
- If an FE Floor Analysis is performed the Building Analysis loads and results can be overridden with those determined from the FE Floor Analysis (Merge Beam Results with Building Analysis Results on the FE Floor Analysis Post Processor tab)- this is a more complex solution as is not preferred.
POSSIBLE CAUSE
==============
If the model is altered or merely the Beam Loading method is switched for a beam and you are opting NOT to use the FE Floor Analysis for Beam Loads. The Building Analysis may need to be re-run as the model loads have changed. If NOT this will more than likely receive RHS moment errors as the Building Analysis has been run with different loads to those currently assigned to the beam.
b) "Axial Tension force exceed", "Beam Minor Bending exceeded", beam Minor Shear Exceeded".
Orion does not design beams for minor axis bending, shear or axial loads. so to regulate this, in your beam design settings, you specify the maximum allowable minor axis bending moment and shear force that your beam can safely withstand. same goes for axial loads in your beams. if the values derived from the analysis exceed that specified in the beam design settings, then you get the error message above.
cheers
RE: Orion r15 - techno - 06-29-2010
Dear gboyega,
Really appreciated your replied.
For question b), you said i have to specify the maximum allowable minor shear and bending, is there any guide regarding these? Other software like ESTEEM, STRUDS or even ETABS concrete design did not take care of this minor bending or shear. So, why orion does? Is this really matter regarding these minor bending or shear?
For question a), what are your recommendations to resolve this problem?
RE: Orion r15 - dvng - 06-30-2010
unless, orion designs beam for torsion then it may be prudent not to set any minimum capacity for out of plane bending and run the beam through a local capacity check.