Civil Engineering Association

Let see one of our newest rule

Quote:17- Do not post material in requested topics, post them in related section according to our templates then post URL of the posted material in requested topic. (For e.g. if someone request a ASTM code in request section and you have that, post new thread in eBook>Codes ...>ASTM, then post URL of that topic in reply of ASTM code request). after 20-Feb-2012 new warning will be add for this subject

I want to tell this suggetion weeks ago, not because I'm now a Candidate Moderator. :)
When this rule launching, I am doubt if it will effective and contributor want to continue follow this rule. Why?
There is no limit how many of file request by user. So, lets take an example.

One screenshot is not enough for 1 request in 1 post.
Follow this link to see full request

I hope everyone know and ever use our postgenerator. Let's say there are 10 article request which not related each other.
If we obey this new rule, and If I have access and want to answer someone request then, I have to create 10 new threads. Create a new thread is a consuming activities. Image is I have to create 10 new threads.
If moderator then give warning to our forum contributor then They(contributor) will become lazy to share their material. Not like requester, If someone answer his/her request then he will frequently post his request. It's not fair.

If we want to see this rule walk in straight line, I think we have to limit user request. 3 request per day is enough.

This is only my opinion. We need to hear opinion from contributor and requester(always).

Thank you for your suggestion,
No this is not true, and I think this is one of the best rules that we have, if you post a material in request section what happen? when new user wants same material first use search tools and select related section for search (for example when I want AISC code, I search in AISC section for it) thus I can not find it, because it post in request section.
there is no need to open 10 thread for 10 paper, user can open new topic in related section and put all of them inside it.

(02-28-2012, 04:25 PM)Administrator Wrote: [ -> ]if you post a material in request section what happen?

What will happen? It will hard to search what I want. right?
Check this

All post after our new rule posted.

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(02-28-2012, 04:25 PM)Administrator Wrote: [ -> ]there is no need to open 10 thread for 10 paper, user can open new topic in related section and put all of them inside it.

If I piled all of Req Journal in 1 thread then what is the best title? Ex from AISC. maybe like this
"Some paper from AISC" or maybe
"AISC Journal year 1997, 1998, and so on" or what?
Sometimes, Journal Request various from journal provider.. 1 from Elsevier, 1 from wiley, 1 from ASCE and many many...

Dear mybest,

Although I made very few posts I must say that I'm following this rule before I've heard of it. I like it and agree with it.
The idea to provide just reference(link) in the request section has one great advantage: order.

e.g. I don't use search, I just browse, when I look in tekla products I see tekla software, tekla add-ons, tekla api. I hate to jump from requests to releases and so one. Also if release is posted in requests it's very likely that it will be missed by others.

There could be one issue, if the thread is modified, I think the reference would point nowhere.
e.g. Tekla products had lot's of threads until someone decided to clean it up. If those thread links were used in software requests now they point nowhere if not edited there also.

I think that your example has three parts rule 17 , rule 1 and a large number of unrelated material.
Rule 1 and 17 are great for "heavy" stuff. Like books, software, article collections.
But as stated by you there's some hard work for every article to make it look according to rule 1. And one article is "light" stuff many won't read it's title.
So I think that for short, not important articles rule 1 should not be fully applied. Article title, ISBN, author should be enough.

Some few ideas:
- Why having different sections releases and request why not just one single endless section of requests and releases? Answer should be order. rule 17
- Who will move releases from requests to the right sections? Answer should be uploader. rule 17 It would be heavy task for moderator.

Regards

other solution:

Why not to put the most of the job to the requester? Let requester makes post #1 according to the rules (he/she opens Post Generator, and makes whole thread with full info asking for download link) and then the user willing to help, willing to post the requested material just needs to post the link in new post. After the request thread is fulfilled, moderator can move the whole thread to the corresponding section.

Example of the above:

If I want something I'll do everything needed to get something for free.

All the old requests can be moved to some new-openned archive and all the new made requests needs to be made using the Post Generator filled with whole info - just at thought

Regards,
G

Most of our requesters post in every place, post without explaining most of the time what they want exactely. A lot of requests are - give me, send me, i need, i want etc. sometimes the subject is in title and sometimes the title is Request and the subject inside.
Excepting you and maybe 2-3 users more no one request according to any rule. Let's they post and don't count the posts. I'm for freedom in requests and engineering poblems but without counting posts. Otherwise (if we ask users to request as you want) i will delete 90% of requests because for requests we don't have bad requests section and i''m sure no one of the moderators want to do the correction work.
The rule #17 asks users to post answers in the related section and not in requests. This rule is hard to implement because the user willing to help must work harder and maybe he will decide to not answer but in this manner the topics will be clear and easy to find. Usualy the users answering are the same posting using the PG so they can post acording to this rule. The URL pointing to the answer is in requests section and will be not counted (only the answer in topic).

(03-13-2012, 11:35 PM)LiviuM Wrote: [ -> ]- Who will move releases from requests to the right sections? Answer should be uploader. rule 17 It would be heavy task for moderator.

If this rule success implemented then it will not hard for moderator but it will be very very hard for contributor, and It will decrease passion of member to share. Really. On other hand
If this rule doesn't work like today then it will be hard for moderators.

(03-14-2012, 07:42 AM)Grunf Wrote: [ -> ]other solution:

Why not to put the most of the job to the requester? Let requester makes post #1 according to the rules (he/she opens Post Generator, and makes whole thread with full info asking for download link) and then the user willing to help, willing to post the requested material just needs to post the link in new post. After the request thread is fulfilled, moderator can move the whole thread to the corresponding section.

I totally agree with you Grunf, we have the same thinking.
The Rule is Simple, HELP ME TO HELP YOU, if you really need help, just show me your passion to get helped

(03-14-2012, 08:37 AM)BennyP Wrote: [ -> ]I will delete 90% of requests because for requests we don't have bad requests section and i''m sure no one of the moderators want to do the correction work.

Yes BennyP, you are right. It will hard work for moderator but nothing more harder as today especially in Ebooks Section.
Look at This section
Most of new threads there were move and redesign by Grunf. Isn't it harder than just delete?
All of members here must be thanks him for his great work.
I agree with Grunf to put all the job to requester. Moderator and contributor should do nothing, and contributor task only share link. That's it. If requester post him/her request not using PG, delete and warn him/her. I am sure, it will hard work for moderators only for at the start implemented, but as time goes by, our member can learn. Warn is a great tool to make someone learn.

Anyway, I would love to hear voice from other member too, especially our contributor.

I always thought if someone want help he must at least to do that in the right way (the right way is what we decide). The problem is every day i see 2-3 years old users making the same faults and thinking only how to receive more without doing nothing (well this is common for people not only in forums) and i don't believ users not able to understand after 5-6 warnings for wrong section where to post requests will prepare a request using PG and giving all details.

The dilema is between:

Users doesn't respect the rule and in this case the post will be deleted and they will not receive help. I don't realy care about and i only tell you this is the every day situation. I'm for teaching the users to respect the rules and not to add work to moderators or to users trying to help.
After years seeing users receiving PM's, comments in profile and warnings without effect the result will be less answers because many request will be deleted.

The second option is what Admin asked. The user answering a request will do in the right way and in the right place creating a new thread if needed. The problem is less users will make this effort and they will be the same posting even without requests.

I don't understand why the moderators must be the good posters too but this is a fact. I don't think the moderators are the slaves of the naggers asking and asking and is enough if they answer to request too (posting an answer) without doing the dirty work for others if they answer not acording to rule #17.

The moderators work is to give the rules, to apply the rules and to help and not to correct every post for others.

I must agree with a rule for requester to create request using post generator. And uploader to provide only link and moderator to move thread from requests to releases.
I think the button [report] could be used to mark thread so that moderator will move the request to releases.
Also regarding the dilema:
I think there are some good users (active users) and bad users (inactive users).
Bad users are leaches that come make a request then go. Their request is like BennyP described in Post: #6. They just try and don't care.
Good users are those that come make a request, post some material, follow the rules and so one. They interact with CivilEA in both ways.
I think a good user posted something else than requests and so he knows the rules and could follow them. Also a good user values the effort of uploader, and values the requested document/software (Post: #5) and so I think there are some high chances that he/she will use the PG to make a request.
I don't think that having a huge number of ugly requests from bad users is useful for the good users. After all if a good user needs a document/software he will request it. And his request won't be lost in a huge list of bad requests from bad users.
So if bad users don't receive help they will be "forced" to leave or become good users (learn how to ask for help).
Maybe posting requests should be allowed only after user is a little more active than Newcomers, after some posts.

I think, we have to consider this case from all sides. Not only from one side(bad side). If we consider from bad side only then we couldn't see the good side of this suggestion. Sharing and moderating is a voluntary activity. Push requester to make a good post and try to help contributor(not give additional load for contributor) to help him/her is a good one. If they don't agree then just kick them out from this forum.
This forum stay alive because of great contributor and not because bad requester.

(03-14-2012, 05:46 PM)LiviuM Wrote: [ -> ]I must agree with a rule for requester to create request using post generator. And uploader to provide only link and moderator to move thread from requests to releases.

yes. Me, you and Grunf agree with this new one.

(03-14-2012, 05:46 PM)LiviuM Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe posting requests should be allowed only after user is a little more active than Newcomers, after some posts.

very good idea. Need to be consider more.